La Cantina Italian Pizzeria, Saint-Rémy-de-Provence

La Cantina in Saint- Rémy-de-Provence quickly became one of our favorite restaurants during our recent visit to Provence. We had gotten to know and like the  owners, Claude and Dana, on our trip several years ago when they owned Bistro Decouverte. Friends had told us that not long after we saw them then that they sold their very successful bistro and opened an Italian pizzeria across the street and finding them was one of our first priorities. We quickly became regulars at La Cantina and dined there for lunch or dinner at least once a week, often more. I loved it that they put VIP by our name on the reservations list.

It didn’t take long for us to realize that not only does La Cantina make the best pizza in all of Saint-Rémy, but we thought it was the best pizza we had ever tasted. Our favorite on the menu was the Pizza Margherita shown above and consists of tomato sauce, mozzarella cheese and beautiful fresh basil leaves. La Cantina’s dough is made from Italian flour and yeast, ferments for a minimum of 48 hours, then spread by hand to bring that nice crunch everyone loves to the pizza. More about their dough here on their website. Another secret to the success of their pizza is they have two new professional pizza ovens from OEM Optymo Concepts - the very first ones to be installed in France. Read more about these ovens here on La Cantina's Facebook page.

The pizza arrives at your table with a fabulous arugula salad, also called a rocket salad in France. The salad was served in a bowl family style along with a crusty baguette.

The arugula was dressed in a simple balsamic vinaigrette and topped with a very generous serving of shaved Italian Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese.

If you prefer a more substantial salad, we recommend their rocket salad accompanied by asparagus spears dressed with a creamy Parmesan cheese sauce.

La Cantina also has a nice selection of specialty salads and antipasti. We invited author and blogger Vicki Archer of French Essence to lunch at La Cantina while we were there and her favorite salad is La Cantina’s “La Grande,” shown above. It consists of rocket, cherry tomatoes, artichoke hearts, bresole, mozzarella and Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese. La Cantina is also one of Vicki’s favorite restaurants and she and her family dine there often and know Claude and Dana well.

La Cantina’s affogato was one of the best I’ve ever tasted. Affogato is one of my all time favorites and I order it every time I see it on a menu. It is an Italian coffee based beverage and makes a great ending to a rich meal. There are only 2 ingredients in an affogato – hot espresso and cold vanilla gelato. The combination of these two simple ingredients creates the most delicious cup of coffee you’ve ever had.

Claude has a rich history with wine and food and was named “Sommelier of the Year” in London in 1999. He has worked with other food greats such as Joel Robuchon and Marco Pierce White. We highly recommended that when dining at La Cantina you allow Claude to choose your wine. You will definitely not be disappointed with his choice.

The day of the running of the sheep, the Fête de la Transhumance, we arrived in Saint-Rémy very early and promptly went to La Cantina to reserve one of their outside tables by the street. Claude graciously arranged a reservation for us to sit as close to the street as possible and put a “reserved” card on our table. I'm the blonde at the middle table. You can see how close our table was to the street.

The Fête de la Transhumance in Saint-Rémy-de-Provence is without a doubt the most famous festival in the south of France. Transhumance brings back to life the day the shepherds move their sheep to the mountains for the summer. It is a traditional and moving fête dear to the hearts of the Provençal people. Read more about it here.

The sheep are marched through the center of the village and what a thrill to see. It was so exciting to sit so close to the sheep as they ran by. We were actually able to reach out a touch a couple and were surprised their coats were not as soft as they looked. I’ll have more about this festival in another post.

While the sheep and shepherds passed by right in front of our eyes, we shared La Cantina’s delicious antipasto plate. Merci beaucoup to Claude for reserving these ring side seats for us.

Whatever you do, if you are anywhere near in Saint- Rémy-de-Provence, do not miss a chance to dine at La Cantina. I can’t recommend it highly enough and I am positive that you won’t be disappointed.

La Cantina
"The best pizzeria in Provence"

18 Boulevard Victor Hugo

13210 Saint-Rémy-de Provence, France

04 90 90 90 60 

Closed Mondays

Reservations recommended
Website & Facebook page

I know some of you are hoping for or expecting recipes. As much as I enjoy visiting with professionals about what makes their food so good, I am not comfortable asking them for their recipes. Sorry, I’m just not. But the good news is that I've tried my own versions of some of these recipes and I’ll share what I’ve found with you.

I’ve made the arugula salad frequently since we’ve returned. I take handfuls of fresh baby arugula and dress it with a vinaigrette composed of 1 part best-quality aged balsamic vinegar to 3 parts extra-virgin olive oil, add a good sprinkle of French sea salt to the vinaigrette, then top the dressed salad with lots of  freshly shaved Italian Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, the best quality I could find. Claude didn’t skimp on the cheese and neither did I.

I did ask Claude about his sauce for the asparagus and he said it was just cream and Parmesan. I found several Parmesan cheese cream sauces on the web and the one here tastes similar to his. My recipe for preparing poached asparagus can be found here. We served the asparagus as an accompaniment to a steak the other night. Right before it was served I sprinkled a dusting of bright red Aleppo pepper flakes over the cream sauce to add a touch of color and a peppery flavor. It was delicious.

Photo from Bialetti's website

Regarding the affogato, it’s a breeze to make at home, although mine never turns out as pretty as Claude’s. I did find that the espresso they serve in France was out-of-this-world fabulous and so is French gelato. I haven’t been able to duplicate either here. To make affogoto, simply brew some espresso, and for every scoop of gelato, top it with about 1 ounce of hot espresso. I use a Bialetti Moka Express pot like the one above. They’ve been making these little pots since 1933. An Italian neighbor once shared her secret espresso many years ago.  Now, just like she did, before brewing my espresso I sprinkle the coffee with a pinch or two of sugar and anise seeds before I brew it to give the coffee a hint of anise flavor. For a perfect affogato, it’s best to brew your espresso just before serving it so everything is as fresh as possible. I’ve also read to chill your glass and make sure the gelato is very, very cold and I think that would keep the gelato from melting right away, which mine has the tendency to do. I don’t know what Claude’s secret was, but his gelato wasn’t melting when it was brought to the table.

For better viewing, click photos to enlarge.

This will be shared with Foodie Friday at Rattlebridge Farm and Miz Helen’s Country Kitchen Full Plate Thursday.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Market Day in Saint-Remy-de-Provence & a Provencal Tomato Tart

Wednesday is market day in Saint-Remy-de-Provence, an old Roman village just south of Avignon nestled in the hills of Les Alpilles mountains where vineyards and olive groves flourish. The current site of Saint-Remy was probably first built in the 1st century AD and the town was created around its first church, built in the 6th century. It is the birthplace of Nostradamus, a 16th century author of prophecies and was once the home of French Impressionist Vincent van Gogh, who spent the last year of his life in the psychiatric center at the Monastery Saint-Paul de Mausole. Although its history runs steep, it is one of the most lovely and stylish villages in Provence.  

Markets such as this one have existed for centuries in Provence and have changed very little in modern times. Scenes such as these are repeated throughout Provence day in, day out, year after year, in sun, rain, snow, even on holidays. It is a traveling carnival that goes from village to village, attracting locals and tourists alike.

The main food market is in Place Pellissier where local farmers bring in their fruits and vegetables, fresh from the fields and set up their stands. More of the market, including clothing and fabrics, flows into the Place de la Republique across the street.

There’s a wide variety of other vendors including a huge selection of French cheeses,

freshly baked breads, fish & shellfish right out of the water from Marseille,

a wide variety of Provencal olives, brightly colored spices,

vin de pays wines and regional olive oils,

colorful olive oil soaps,

beautifully carved wooden spoons and bowls,

kitchen implements, prepared foods of all kinds, regional specialities, local goat cheeses, foie gras,

and quite a nice selection of clothes,

table linens

scarves, and brightly colored straw market bags.

As you can see you can buy almost anything at the market. On market day the village is bustling with locals as well as tourists. I recommend that you arrive early as the locals do in order to avoid the crowds of tourists, especially in the summer months.

These gorgeous tomatoes are perfect for a Provencal tomato tart. For today’s tart I chose puff pastry as a base, but in a previous post (photos directly below) I used pastry dough, post and recipe here. That particular tomato tart had a more dense cheesy egg filling than the one with puff pastry that I made for today, as you can see in the photos below. Actually I made that tart two different ways – one resembled more of a quiche

and the other a deep dish tart.

But today’s tomato tart uses puff pastry and I was quite pleased with the results below. It was crunchy and light and perfect for lunch with a simple green salad, dressed with a French vinaigrette, recipe here.

In Provence tomato tarts are often served in small slices with aperitifs during cocktail hour. Every cook has her own unique version. I was surprised at how easy the puff pastry was to work with. If you can find heirloom tomatoes, especially several different colors, by all means use them, but garden tomatoes work just fine as well.

Provencal Tomato Tart (Tarte aux tomatoes)
Adapted from A Pig in Provence by Georgeanne Brennan, with puff pastry instructions from Epicurious, serves 6
Printable Recipe

Preheat an oven to 375 degrees F. Defrost 1 sheet frozen puff pastry (preferably all-butter pastry) from a 14–17-oz. box according to package directions. If the package contains 1 sheet, cut the pastry in half; if the package contains 2 sheets, just use 1. Roll out the dough slightly on a floured surface to smooth it out.

Place the pastry sheet on a parchment-lined, rimmed baking sheet and use a paring knife to gently score a 1/4” border around the edge. Using a fork, prick the pastry all over inside the border to release steam while baking.

Spread the bottom of the dough with a thin layer of Dijon mustard, and then cover with a single layer of snugly packed tomato slices, preferably heirloom tomatoes in several colors, that have been sprinkled with sea salt and drained on a paper towel to remove excess moisture. Drizzle with extra-virgin olive oil and sprinkle with freshly ground black pepper and chopped fresh thyme. Top with grated Gruyere cheese. Bake until the crust is golden and the tomatoes have collapsed. It should take about 20 to 25 minutes. Check at 20 minutes and continue to cook until pastry is golden. Remove the tart to a rack and let it cool for 20 minutes or so before slicing it into wedges.

Variations: Add slivers of kalamata olives over the cheese before baking. Or sprinkle the cooked and cooled tart with torn bits of fresh basil right before serving.

For better viewing, click photos to enlarge.

This will be shared with Foodie Friday at Rattlebridge Farm and Miz Helen’s Country Kitchen Full Plate Thursday.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Dream Destination Dinner in Saint-Remy-de-Provence in the South of France

Do you have a dream destination for dinner in a foreign city and if so, where would you choose? Paris perhaps or London, Rome or Madrid?  I would probably choose Paris because it’s such a romantic city and the choices of fine dining are plentiful. But how about it if I shake it up a bit and ask what foreign city would you choose if your dream was to prepare dinner for a couple of your friends.

Without hesitation my first choice would be Saint-Remy-de-Provence in the South of France. It is a bit laid back compared to big cities, but that’s what is so charming about the villages of Provence. In fact we are in the process of putting the finishing touches on our next trip there in the spring. St. Remy is in the Bouches-du-Rhône area of Provence in the Alpilles near Avignon, Arles and Aix-en-Provence and about an hour north of the old port city of Marseille. According to the local tourist department, St. Remy is bathed in sunshine for more than 300 days a year.

Since I chose to prepare dinner at home for some friends rather than dining out, it will encompass a bit of shopping. A natural choice for this dream dinner would be to serve a local Provençale Daube of Beef, accompanied by Le Macaronade, a macaroni gratin, and finish with simple dessert such as Julia Child’s cherry clafouti. Join me as we stop in St. Remy for a few things we’ll need.

Shopping in Provence is an adventure all into itself. There will be many stops along the way as you’ll see and everything is done in a leisurely style. Bring plenty of patience with you. I also suggest that you make sure to brush up on your French as many of the shop owners in small towns in Provence don’t speak English and if they do, it is un peu.

In fact if you’re game, I suggest you do a little research and write your grocery list in French. If I happen to look up a recipe on line and the directions aren't in English, I always find it easier if the website owner uses software to translate the website for me. While you’re doing your research, also jot down a few words and phrases that will help you as you shop. I guarantee it will be very helpful. I don’t speak French very well and I found that my written list came in very handy when my school girl pronunciation skills let me down as it often did. Contrary to what you’ve might have heard about the French, most all of them, especially in small villages, want to be very helpful, but it’s important that you do your part as well.

If we are to follow the lead of the locals, the first stop should always be the boulangerie for a freshly baked baguette, the first thing in the morning bien sur.

Tuck the baguette under your arm or put it in your straw shopping bag that you’ve brought along for the occasion. No straw shopping bag? No problem. There will be many to choose from at the local outdoor market in the square, where we’re off to next to pick up some assorted olives and nuts to munch on while we’ll sip a pastis, a popular aperitif in Provence, before dinner.

For the vegetables in our stew, we’ll stop at this lovely vegetable stand and also ask about local cherries for the clafouti.

Of course while we’re at the market we must pick up some flowers. Which ones do you like?

In Provence you never know what you might see at the local market. Perhaps a pet pour vous to take home?

Our final stop will be the boucherie for the meat for our daube. We’ll ask the butcher to choose the cut of beef for us while we chat with him about the weather.

As you can tell, shopping is a leisurely affair in Provence. Everyone must first be greeted with a friendly Bonjour Monsieur or Bonjour Madame as you enter their shop or approach their stall at the outdoor market and there’s always a polite au revoir or bonne journee exchanged as you depart. Oh, let’s not forget to pick up a couple of bottles of a local Cote de Rhone to serve with dinner while we’re out.

We’ve often said that if we had one more big dream left to follow it would be to live in Provence and perhaps find an old mas, the French word for farm house, to remodel. Unfortunately for us, we no longer have enough energy or youth to chase another dream. We already followed one big dream when we lived on a tiny private cay in the northern Bahamas for ten years. So now we visit Provence as often as we possibly can and rent someone else’s home for a couple of months and “pretend” we live there. Here’s our next “pretend” home for the coming spring just outside St. Remy-de-Provence.

When I was last in St. Remy I picked up some Les Olivades napkins at one of the local shops as one of the souvenirs of our trip. You’ll notice that I used them today when I set the table for dinner. Les Olivades is the last local company to continue the tradition of printing on fabric begun in Provence in Marseille in 1648 and they are still creating wonderful designs based on the original styles. Napkins and small things such as the local fleur de sel harvested in the nearby Camargue or charming burlap bags of herbs de Provence make nice gifts for yourself or your friends and they don’t take up any room at all in your suitcase.

The following recipe for daube looks very long, but if I were to leave out the details and the optional garnishes, it might read like this: combine all of the ingredients one day, cook them the next day, let them ripen one more day, spoon off any unwanted fat that rises to the surface, reheat, and eat. All this with only a single pot to wash.

Provençale Daube of Beef or Estouffade Provençale
Inspired by Cooking School Provence –by Guide Gedda & Bistro Cooking by Patricia Wells 
Serves 6 to 8 and should be made two days before serving 
Printable Recipe

2 ½ pounds beef, cut into 1 ½” chunks (a butcher can do this for you), we used boneless bottom round
2 medium mild onions, coarsely chopped
2 garlic cloves, peeled and crushed
1 large carrot, peeled and cut into ½” rounds
1 celery rib, minced
Kosher salt or sea salt and freshly ground black pepper
2 tablespoons extra-virgin olive oil
1 bottle (3 cups) red wine, preferably Provençale, I used a Cote de Rhone
¼ cup marc de Provence or Cognac
1 bunch of fresh thyme
3 imported bay leaves
4 cloves, wrapped in a bag of cheesecloth
About a ¼ teaspoon freshly grated nutmeg
1 strip of orange zest, about 2 inches, dried if desired (link to how to dry orange zest here)

As needed:
1 ounce baking chocolate, chopped
1 to 2 tablespoons local honey
A dash of red wine vinegar

Garnishes, optional:
More orange zest, chopped, for garnish
Fresh flat-leaf Italian parsley for garnish
Assorted fancy mushrooms, briefly sautéed in good butter & seasoned with sea salt and freshly ground black pepper
3 or 4 fresh carrots, peeled, par-boiled and sautéed in good butter until they begin to brown, then seasoned with sea salt and freshly ground black pepper.

Two days before serving the daube, combine all of the ingredients minus the garnishes in a large enameled casserole. Cover and refrigerate overnight. The next day, bring the mixture to a simmer over low heat. Simmer gently until the meat is very tender, about 3 to 4 hours. Allow to cool down and refrigerate until the fat rises to the top and can be easily scraped off with a small spoon, about 12 hours or overnight.

At serving time, scraping off any additional fat. Reheat until the meat is heated through, 10 to 15 minutes. Remove the thyme leaves, bay leaves, orange jest, and bag of cloves. Taste for seasonings and adjust accordingly. You may want to add the crumbled chocolate, honey and/or the vinegar if taste dictates. I added the chocolate and I thought it took away the slight bitterness of the sauce. If your sauce is too thin, see cook’s notes below on how to thicken with a beurre manié.

For garnishes, be sure to use freshly chopped flat-leaf parsley and chopped orange zest. Both bring an air of light freshness to the dish. If desired you can add additional garnishes, such as freshly sautéed fancy mushrooms and additional carrots.

If accompanied by a macaroni gratin (recipe below), be sure to reserve 1 cup of the sauce from the daube for the macaroni. Equally delicious is simple buttered noodles with grated Parmesan.

Cook’s notes: If your sauce is not thick enough (ours wasn’t), make a beurre manie by blending 3 T flour with 2 T softened butter to make a paste. Off heat, whisk in the beurre manié, then simmer the sauce for 2 minutes as it thickens. If you find your sauce is too tart (ours was), you can add some finely chopped good chocolate or a bit of honey and let it heat through the dish. I keep only dark chocolate on hand and honey, especially local, is a staple in any kitchen in Provence. If it needs a bit of spark, add a dash or two of red wine vinegar.

La Macaronade or Macaroni Gratin
Adapted from Bistro Cooking by Patricia Wells – serves 4
Printable Recipe

To prepare authentic macaronade, you must first prepare a stew, either an Estouffade or a Daube, the traditional beef stew of the south of France.

Kosher salt
1 pound elbow macaroni
1 cup liquid reserved from Provençale Beef Daube
1 cup freshly grated imported Parmesan cheese

Preheat the broiler. Bring a large pot of water to a rolling boil. Salt the water and add the pasta and cook until tender, then drain. Spoon half of the noodles in a 2 quart gratin dish or individual serving dishes. Moisten the noodles with half of the stew liquid. Sprinkle half of the cheese over the noodles, then add remaining noodles, liquid and cheese. Place under the broiler and broil just until the cheese is browned and sizzling.

Julia Child’s Cherry Clafouti a la Liqueur
Mastering the Art of French Cooking by Julia Child – serves 6
Printable Recipe

3 cups pitted black cherries
¼ cup cognac
1/3 cup granulated sugar

Batter:
Liquid from the cherries and enough milk to equal 1 ¼ cups
1/3 cup granulated sugar
3 eggs
1 Tablespoon vanilla extract
1/8 teaspoon salt
2/3 cup sifted all-purpose flour
An electric blender
A 7-8 cup lightly buttered, fireproof baking dish or Pyrex pie plate
Powdered sugar for garnish

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Use fresh, black, sweet cherries in season and let them stand for 1 hour in the cognac and sugar.

Place the batter ingredients in your blender jar in the order in which they are listed. Cover & blend at top speed for 1 minute. Pour a ¼” layer of batter in the lightly buttered baking dish or pie plate. Put in the oven to let the batter set. Spread the drained cherries over the batter, then pour on the rest of the batter and smooth the surface with the back of a spoon.

Place in middle position of preheated oven and bake for about an hour. It is done when it has puffed and browned and a needle or knife plunged into its center comes out clean. Sprinkle the top with powdered sugar just before bringing to the table. It need not be served hot, but should still be warm. It will sink down slightly as it cools.

Au revoir for now from Saint. Remy-de-Provence in the South of Provence.

For better viewing, click photos to enlarge.

This will be shared with Foodie Friday at Rattlebridge Farm, Miz Helen’s Country Kitchen Full Plate Thursday, and Weekend Bites at Simple Recipes.  

Have a great weekend everyone.

A recipe for rabbit - Lapin a la Chasseur and the beautiful village of L’Isle Sur la Sorgue

Lapin a la Chasseur

Every time I think about rabbit, or lapin as it’s called in France, I think of a charming story I read about an American family from South Carolina that moved to France. The father worked for the Michelin Tire Company and was transferred, so he took his wife and family with him. They had two small children and the little girl was having difficulties learning French, so the mother asked the neighbor, a grandmotherly type, if she would help her daughter. The neighbor took the girl under her wing and one day they were on a walk and saw a rabbit in the garden. The grandmother told the little girl that it was called lapin. The little girl said, “He’s so cute.” “Non,” the grandmother replied, “delicieux.”

If you don’t like rabbit, don’t worry. The French Impressionist Claude Monet didn’t eat rabbit either. Who would dare to say the famous Monet didn’t have good taste. Just enjoy the photos for today. They are from L’Isle Sur la Sorgue, a charming French village with river canals of crystal blue water from the Sorgue River running between its ancient streets. There are several large old waterwheels that still turn. Sunday is the most popular day of the week in L’Isle Sur la Sorgue, because they hold a huge antique and flea market in conjunction with their farmers market. The village is a “do not miss” in travel guides. I hope you’ll enjoy them.

Because, as the grandmother said, the French think rabbit is delicious, we wanted to try to make it at home. We’d heard that rabbit was difficult to prepare because it’s often dry in texture. We’d made difficult dishes before, so as you can imagine, that didn’t’ stop us. One day while shopping at a butcher shop in a nearby town, we saw a package, so we snapped it up. As soon as we returned home we looked through all of our cookbooks for recipes for rabbit and found Lapin a la Mourtarde, meaning with mustard. In the past we’d used a similar recipe for chicken with mustard, carrots and onions that had been a success and decided to give it a try. We made every effort not to overcook it, but it turned out dry and we didn’t like it, although the sauce was delicious.

When we were in France, we asked Claude and Dana, owners of Bistro Decoverte, one of our favorite bistros in Saint-Remy, “Do you ever have lapin as your plat du jour?

“Not often,” Claude replied. “Why?” we asked. “Because it doesn’t sell well? “No,” he said, “actually it sells quite well, but it’s difficult to prepare.” Whew, even a Frenchman thinks it’s hard to prepare. It’s not just us. We told him to call us if he ever happened to have it on the menu and left it at that.

The next week I was walking along the boulevard when I heard someone call my name. Surprised that I might know someone in Saint-Remy, I looked around. It was Dana, Claude’s wife. We’re having lapin this Sunday she said. Would you like to make a reservation? Needless to say I said, “Oui Dana, s’il vous plait.” The lapin was delicious and was prepared a la Moutarde, with a mustard sauce. Claude quickly sold out of it and, much to our good fortune, featured it several more times during our stay.

When we returned home I was flipping through Mark Bittman and Jean- Georges Vongerichten’s cookbook, Simple to Spectacular, and ran across a recipe for Lapin a la Chasseur and decided to give rabbit a second change in my kitchen. Thanks to their excellent instructions, it turned out great and, as the French grandmother would say, delicieux. Because of their reputation and the fact that we’d failed before, I didn’t make many changes. I mean, who would have the audacity to think they could improve on a recipe from Jean-Georges? Not moi for certain. However, I took two shortcuts and used frozen little pearl onions and bought pre-sliced mushrooms. Rice or buttered noodles and a green salad make a nice accompaniment.

Lapin a la Chasseur

Adapted from Simple to Spectacular – serves 4

One 2 – 3 lb rabbit, cut into 10 pieces

Kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper

4 tablespoons extra-virgin olive oil

8 cloves garlic, peeled and lightly crushed

4 sprigs fresh thyme

15 small pearl onions, peeled (thawed and patted dry if using frozen)

8 ounces sliced white button mushrooms

½ cup dry white wine

1 tablespoon sweet butter

¼ cup minced fresh chives or parsley for garnish

Preheat the oven to 400 degrees F. Season the rabbit with salt and pepper. Heat oil in a large ovenproof Dutch oven over medium high heat. Add rabbit pieces (do not crowd the pan; may have to do more than one batch) and turn the heat to high. When the rabbit begins to brown, turn heat down to medium and add garlic and thyme. When it’s nicely browned, stir in the pearl onions and mushrooms and put the pot in the oven for 15 minutes.

Remove all but the legs from the pot to a platter, cover and keep warm. Add wine, stir and return to the oven for another 10 minutes.

Remove pot from oven and return to stove top. Remove legs and set aside on platter with remaining pieces. Add butter to cooking liquid in the pot and stir until butter melts. Taste and add salt and pepper if desired. Spoon sauce over the rabbit and serve, garnished with chives or parsley.